1
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what i saw i couldn't believe there was

2
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so much of it

3
00:00:08,150 --> 00:00:06,319
it was scattered it was such a vast area

4
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so we proceeded to pick up as much of

5
00:00:12,390 --> 00:00:08,960
the

6
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debris as we could loaded in a wagon

7
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we filled that up it took us a good part

8
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of the day to do that because uh it was

9
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such small fragments that we had to do a

10
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lot of picking

11
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we found a piece of metal

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uh

13
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about a foot and a half to two feet wide

14
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and about

15
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about two or three feet long

16
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felt like you had nothing in your hands

17
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it wasn't any thicker than

18
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the foil out of a pack of cigarettes

19
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but the the thing about that

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got me is that you couldn't even bend it

21
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you couldn't bet that it even the

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sledgehammer would bounce off of it so

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i knew that i had never seen anything

24
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like that before and as of as of now i

25
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don't know what it was

26
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it was not anything from this earth that

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i'm quite sure of

28
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because i was being intelligent

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obviously i was familiar with just about

30
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all materials used

31
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in aircraft

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and our air travel

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this is nothing like that it could not

34
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be

35
00:01:13,590 --> 00:01:12,000
investigate what i thought was an

36
00:01:14,710 --> 00:01:13,600
aircraft accident

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some

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distance from here on a ranch close by

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and uh

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he came back much later one evening

41
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about uh maybe two o'clock in the

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morning

43
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uh with

44
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a car full of debris like metallic

45
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debris

46
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and uh he was very excited about it he

47
00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:34,720
unloaded a good part of this debris

48
00:01:38,870 --> 00:01:36,640
into the house here into the kitchen

49
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part and he woke my mother and myself up

50
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to come look at this because

51
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he had no idea what this was material

52
00:01:49,749 --> 00:01:47,520
that it consisted of was more

53
00:01:52,710 --> 00:01:49,759
foil like although it was a very strong

54
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very tough material

55
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material that was not easily

56
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malleable not not like tin foil that you

57
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just bend back and forth uh part two it

58
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looked like bolts of wood type members

59
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but metal like bolts of wood

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very light and very strong

61
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and uh it had a sort of metallic glint

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to it

63
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like a dull

64
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aluminum surface

65
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i guess the most uh

66
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mind-boggling or startling feature was

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along the inner surface of some of these

68
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the writing itself was not

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english uh noodles of the greek alphabet

70
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or anything that nature looked more like

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an egyptian hieroglyphic type

72
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the lettering itself

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was

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hue

75
00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:50,000
and it looked like it was embossed

76
00:02:53,830 --> 00:02:51,760
inside the inner surface of some of the

77
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uh metallic members

78
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the structural frame itself oh

79
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i think he came to the conclusion

80
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that that this was uh probably not

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anything that was made here at least on

82
00:03:09,430 --> 00:03:05,920
this planet

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00:03:11,750 --> 00:03:09,440
i was not out at the ranch at the time

84
00:03:13,030 --> 00:03:11,760
and i picked up an albuquerque paper and

85
00:03:15,190 --> 00:03:13,040
here's my

86
00:03:19,190 --> 00:03:15,200
dad's picture looking at me and i

87
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thought well i wonder what he's done now

88
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so i went on to

89
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read the article and i told surely i

90
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said well

91
00:03:32,309 --> 00:03:29,519
i guess i better go out to the ranch

92
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because they said that he

93
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the air force had asked him to stay in

94
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roswell

95
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anyway

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they swore dead to secrecy

97
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and i went out to the ranch and stayed

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until he got back

99
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what he got into and

100
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oh he says i found a bunch of trash

101
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and uh

102
00:04:04,869 --> 00:04:01,319
so he went on to tell me it was

103
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a bunch of sticks and

104
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twine string he says

105
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and he said on some of these sticks why

106
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there was uh

107
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oh he says uh japanese or chinese

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figures

109
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you know

110
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start to show me what it was

111
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what it was like you know

112
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and i kept asking him questions and

113
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he said well he said

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i told the air force i wouldn't tell

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anybody he said you're probably better

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off without knowing

117
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he did show me where he had

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wreckage

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and

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see lots of things you know

121
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so i'd go back through there and

122
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naturally i was kind of looking

123
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and i picked up a few scraps

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and uh

125
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that the army hadn't

126
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hadn't picked up

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and i made demand i'd bring them in my

128
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shop's pocket and put them in a cigar

129
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box down at the barn

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i would call it wood

131
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it was kind of like balsa wood

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and uh

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pieces of

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string

135
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or something like the

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monofilament fishing line

137
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like tin foil red foil

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but you couldn't crease it and make it

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stay i'll have

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one little jagged piece of it

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and you bend it over

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like a crease and it'll straighten right

143
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and it wouldn't i don't know it had to

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hit with a terrific force because you

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couldn't cut that wood or the string

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or the foil

147
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and it wouldn't burn the wood was real

148
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pliable oh and uh

149
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it was something

150
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felt like

151
00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:34,880
like balsa would real light you know

152
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and of course that was kind of before

153
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the days of plastic

154
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so it could have been some type of

155
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plastic i don't know an odd shape kind

156
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of a jagged

157
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piece and

158
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uh

159
00:06:54,150 --> 00:06:52,319
the whole area wasn't as large as that

160
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ashtray maybe

161
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well like you just

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00:07:06,870 --> 00:07:01,680
tear a piece of paper or something you

163
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well i say it

164
00:07:15,029 --> 00:07:12,960
it must have hit with a terrific force

165
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to have even broken

166
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the frame parts or tore this foil

167
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because i couldn't tell

168
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i didn't really

169
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get pliers or anything and

170
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try that hard you know

171
00:07:30,550 --> 00:07:28,560
except i didn't try to tear it myself

172
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i just picked stuff like you said i just

173
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tried with my my fingers

174
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oh no i didn't care i don't know my dad

175
00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:38,080
said he tried to tear it and try to

176
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deform it with

177
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hammers but impossible

178
00:07:47,510 --> 00:07:45,840
and um how was the thick

179
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thickness of uh

180
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well

181
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:49,599
it was pretty

182
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pretty thin

183
00:07:57,350 --> 00:07:54,240
[Music]

184
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like uh like what

185
00:08:01,510 --> 00:07:59,199
well like um

186
00:08:04,550 --> 00:08:01,520
aluminum foil that's used today to wrap

187
00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:04,560
uh frozen material was it the same as

188
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that pushing thing

189
00:08:13,990 --> 00:08:10,000
how was the edge of the

190
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the balsa-like material the edge

191
00:08:17,990 --> 00:08:15,520
well

192
00:08:20,469 --> 00:08:18,000
but of course the ends of the pieces i

193
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found were

194
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kind of jagged

195
00:08:29,029 --> 00:08:26,400
but the edge of the

196
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lengthwise was smooth

197
00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:30,560
oh

198
00:08:34,870 --> 00:08:31,840
that's the same

199
00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:34,880
yeah to me uh it resembled an i-beam

200
00:08:39,190 --> 00:08:36,560
a small i-beam

201
00:08:41,110 --> 00:08:39,200
that was fractured on each end

202
00:08:43,430 --> 00:08:41,120
and it was on the inner surface of that

203
00:08:46,630 --> 00:08:43,440
where the writing was located

204
00:08:50,150 --> 00:08:46,640
oh i see the longest piece i

205
00:08:53,430 --> 00:08:50,160
saw about 18 inches in length

206
00:08:54,550 --> 00:08:53,440
i didn't find anything that large minor

207
00:08:58,150 --> 00:08:54,560
or

208
00:09:01,030 --> 00:08:58,160
maybe three inches probably the longest

209
00:09:02,710 --> 00:09:01,040
piece that i found

210
00:09:03,829 --> 00:09:02,720
don't you have any question to mr

211
00:09:05,990 --> 00:09:03,839
president

212
00:09:06,829 --> 00:09:06,000
well it sounds like you and i saw the

213
00:09:10,470 --> 00:09:06,839
same

214
00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:10,480
thing i'm sure well i'm sure it was he

215
00:09:14,949 --> 00:09:12,959
came by after

216
00:09:16,310 --> 00:09:14,959
this incident

217
00:09:21,350 --> 00:09:16,320
and

218
00:09:23,110 --> 00:09:21,360
for several days

219
00:09:26,710 --> 00:09:23,120
and

220
00:09:30,550 --> 00:09:28,710
solid person

221
00:09:33,110 --> 00:09:30,560
dependable

222
00:09:36,150 --> 00:09:33,120
and he was

223
00:09:37,509 --> 00:09:36,160
i think anxious to square himself with

224
00:09:39,190 --> 00:09:37,519
his neighbors

225
00:09:41,990 --> 00:09:39,200
when he came by

226
00:09:44,710 --> 00:09:42,000
i mean to assure them that

227
00:09:50,070 --> 00:09:44,720
what he did was on the up and up

228
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he came to the corral mack was um

229
00:09:52,310 --> 00:09:51,519
living

230
00:09:53,590 --> 00:09:52,320
uh

231
00:09:54,310 --> 00:09:53,600
alone

232
00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:54,320
at

233
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this ranch where he was the manager his

234
00:10:01,750 --> 00:09:59,360
wife lived in alamogordo

235
00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:01,760
and uh mack would come and visit with

236
00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:04,640
the men in the family he he came into

237
00:10:09,670 --> 00:10:06,800
the house once in a while

238
00:10:10,870 --> 00:10:09,680
not too often and the time that he

239
00:10:13,910 --> 00:10:10,880
brought the

240
00:10:15,030 --> 00:10:13,920
the sample of what he had picked up

241
00:10:17,430 --> 00:10:15,040
um

242
00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:17,440
he he was at the corral my daughter and

243
00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:20,240
two sons and husband were at the corral

244
00:10:23,350 --> 00:10:21,680
and they saw it

245
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:23,360
my daughter says that it could be

246
00:10:25,910 --> 00:10:25,040
crumpled up

247
00:10:28,150 --> 00:10:25,920
and

248
00:10:30,870 --> 00:10:28,160
straightened right back out

249
00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:30,880
he was telling my family

250
00:10:36,790 --> 00:10:33,360
about how badly the

251
00:10:37,750 --> 00:10:36,800
army people had treated him down here

252
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:37,760
and

253
00:10:41,269 --> 00:10:39,360
it amounted to

254
00:10:43,910 --> 00:10:41,279
humiliation and

255
00:10:45,269 --> 00:10:43,920
detention when there wasn't any

256
00:10:48,310 --> 00:10:45,279
good reason

257
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:48,320
he had come in in good faith

258
00:10:52,949 --> 00:10:50,320
and

259
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:52,959
they didn't accept it that way or didn't

260
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:58,790
he said they threw him in jail he said

261
00:11:03,350 --> 00:11:00,640
if he ever found anything like that

262
00:11:04,389 --> 00:11:03,360
again he would never show it to him he

263
00:11:07,509 --> 00:11:04,399
would never

264
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:07,519
so

265
00:11:11,509 --> 00:11:10,399
as what he thought was a good citizen

266
00:11:17,990 --> 00:11:11,519
and

267
00:11:20,710 --> 00:11:18,000
he

268
00:11:23,350 --> 00:11:20,720
disturbed

269
00:11:26,550 --> 00:11:23,360
it seems to me like that he did bring a

270
00:11:29,670 --> 00:11:26,560
small piece of it up but i expect it was

271
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,680
hard to you i don't think you could uh

272
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:31,200
the way he talks you couldn't have tore

273
00:11:36,310 --> 00:11:33,600
off a little piece or anything

274
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,320
but the the piece of uh wood looking

275
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:37,920
stuff was

276
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:40,000
nearly as big as a pencil and it was

277
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:42,240
kind of

278
00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:44,320
oh

279
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:46,720
i'd say now it looked more like plastic

280
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:48,399
or so you know a hard plastic or

281
00:11:52,069 --> 00:11:50,320
something back then we didn't know what

282
00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:52,079
plastic was but

283
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:54,399
you know it was just a

284
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:56,160
look like some kind of wood i don't know

285
00:11:59,110 --> 00:11:57,200
just what

286
00:12:01,750 --> 00:11:59,120
and then my brother that

287
00:12:03,190 --> 00:12:01,760
was in in the air force at roswell that

288
00:12:04,870 --> 00:12:03,200
uh

289
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:04,880
was with the crew that flew it out of

290
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:06,399
roswell he said they couldn't see

291
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,240
anything because they had it all you

292
00:12:12,230 --> 00:12:10,959
know had it covered up with tariffs what

293
00:12:15,269 --> 00:12:12,240
was his name

294
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:15,279
robert porter

295
00:12:21,509 --> 00:12:18,240
and he's still living in great falls yes

296
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,519
but he was in roswell at that time in

297
00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,800
the air force

298
00:12:26,310 --> 00:12:24,560
he was part of the crew that flew it in

299
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:26,320
the uh some of the wreckage in the

300
00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:29,760
aircraft over fort worth yes

301
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:31,360
but he said he they didn't know what

302
00:12:35,430 --> 00:12:33,839
they had flew out until